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Episode 17 - "You are the Entourage Effect!"

An Interview with Chef Brandon Allen of the Trichome Institute

Chef Brandon, a bald white man with a trimmed beard wearing an apron, stands in front of kitchen island.  The setting sun is peeking through a window in the background.

In this first part of a two-part episode, Scott and Miranda interview Chef Brandon Allen of the Trichome Institute! The trio discuss the experience of hosting and attending cannabis dinners, dosing, and his new cooking class!


[MUSIC - "Homebrew" by 311]

Miranda 0:12

Hello, and welcome to The Heady Conversations with Scott and Miranda.

Scott 0:16

Welcome in friends to the next interview episode. We are into may now which is my birthday month.

Miranda 0:26


Scott 0:27

And also we're getting into summer and yeah, better weather, hopefully where you are. I know I've been getting out more to enjoy nature and getting out to some more events and social activities. So hopefully you're doing the same. In the meantime, yeah, we're here to interview our new friend, Chef Brandon Allen from the Trichome. Institute.

Miranda 0:52

Yeah, we were super fortunate to get an interview with Chef Brandon. The Trichome Institute is an amazing sort of online university. They do have in person classes, although I'm not sure what their COVID restrictions are currently.

Scott 1:07

I don't think they're back to in person classes yet. But I haven't.

Miranda 1:13

I haven't checked either.

Scott 1:14

I yeah, I haven't been to their, their website for that purpose. Super recently, I've been going to look at the cooking videos from their new cooking class.

Miranda 1:24

Yeah, Scott and I have actually both taken classes from the Trichome Institute. And we find that their education is valuable and well presented. And a great as we think a great bit of information for the money that you spend,

Scott 1:42

they present their information very well. I think it's easy to digest.

Miranda 1:46

I think it's fun.

Scott 1:48

It's fun, it's science based, they explain the science behind a lot of what they do. You know, it's Brandon and Max. And now their team has grown a little bit more than that as well. But I think Brandon and Max do a lion's share of the education.

Miranda 2:05

They certainly do.

Scott 2:06

But yeah, it's it's a really great organization, if you haven't checked them out, definitely do. So we're going to be you know, linking to all of their existing social media, and their website and all that good stuff, we actually had so much to talk about with Chef Brandon that you'll be getting two episodes from this interview, the very least you can go check out his personal Instagram, Chef Brandon Allen, and also the just website to link to the different courses that they offer, and events that they might have coming up in different. You know, I think the actual schools located in Colorado, but Chef Brandon lives down in Texas. So they're kind of all over the place. And they're involved with different events and activities all over the place with High Times and other organizations. So yeah, keep an eye peeled for the things that they do. But in the meantime,

Miranda 3:06

Enjoy our interview with Chef Brandon Allen from the Trichome Institute, talking about cooking with cannabis.

Scott 3:15


Miranda 3:17

Good morning.

Scott 3:18

Good morning, Brandon.

Brandon 3:19

Good morning.

Miranda 3:20

Thank you for joining us.

Scott 3:21

Yeah, if you could just introduce yourselves for the people and tell them who you are.

Brandon 3:26

Hey, I'm Brandon Allen with start that again. It was mid swallow. All right. Hey, y'all. I'm Chef Brandon Allen with Trichome Institute.

Scott 3:36

Yeah, and we need something more detailed or just like that. So I mean, we can totally ask you more about yourself, but just, you know, have have your name and official position and all that good stuff.

Miranda 3:47


Scott 3:48

That's a that's a decent start. For sure.

Brandon 3:51


Scott 3:52

But yeah, and, you know, I don't I don't know if you've had the chance to listen to any of our episodes yet or not.

Brandon 3:58

I have.

Scott 3:58

But yeah, like 16 episodes in the can at this point. We're, you know, branching out and talking to different people. Both of us have taken Trichome Institute courses.

Miranda 4:09


Brandon 4:09


Scott 4:10

And, you know, just think the world of the work that you all do and the service that you're providing to help illuminate and educate people on some of these things involving cannabinoids and how to use them properly and safely.

Miranda 4:27

Especially, regarding edibles, I feel like edibles. That's like the wild west of like dosing, dosing. In a lot of ways.

Brandon 4:39

Oh completely.

Miranda 4:39

A lot of people do not understand how to dose themselves in regards to edibles. So as as you've probably I don't know if you've looked at the website, but you've probably seen that we've talked to a lot of people who do cook in the industry. So I'm curious to find out a little bit more about the program that you've got and what You're branching out and doing as a chef in the cannabis industry.

Brandon 5:04

Excellent. So since y'all are on video, and I know you don't put this on video, I'm going to start mine regardless of what it looks like so sure we have a little bit of a of a connection here to get a little better lighting. Alright, there you go. You like my Dolly Parton? T shirt?

Miranda 5:19

That's awesome!

Scott 5:19

I love your Dolly T shirt.

Miranda 5:21

Dolly rocks, man.

Scott 5:22

Yeah, we're all about Dolly.

Miranda 5:24

And we're in the Red Room of Twin Peaks here. So

Brandon 5:27

I like it. I like it. Okay, so I will definitely second what you mentioned regarding the Wild West, when it comes to well, we're in the wild west of cannabis no matter what. And I think we've got a lot, a lot of time left before that expires, so to speak. I'm sure. When we're looking at edibles, it's definitely one of the more challenging ways to consume cannabis, not because it's difficult, it's actually the easiest way because we all know how to chew and swallow, you know, but when it comes to the effects of it, it can definitely be challenging, because it's so dose dependent. And the fact that you can have people that have been smoking weed for years, do an edible and be out of their mind, because their body is not used to the way these compounds are metabolized and how they affect us differently based off of how they're consumed. And so that's the biggest challenge is understanding tolerance and dosing with an edible and it doesn't necessarily matter what your experiences with cannabis from the inhalation side, it kind of all starts over. You can have an OG that's been blazing for years, and they can take a 10 milligram dose and you know, be hanging out with Jesus. It's just all over the place. So--

Scott 6:57

And it's funny, that's that can be a real challenging thing to explain as a cannabis professional when you got this guy standing in front of you. Let's say he's a 50 year old, you know, military veteran who's been smoking since he was in high school. And he steps up to you as a budtender and wants to buy, you know, 50 milligram edibles or 100 milligram edibles because he thinks, oh, well, I weigh 300 pounds. I've been doing this for decades. Yeah, ya know, I smoke, you know, three blunts a day and I barely get high, you know, and a lot of people take it as a challenge. It's almost like a machismo thing, you know, gets activated, where these guys are like, yeah, and even women are like, Oh, please, you know, No, give me the 40s. And it's like, all right, like, you just told me you've never had an edible in your life. Or you had like a cookie once at a party, that you have no idea what the dosage was, you know, and now you just want the strongest thing I've got because you buy THC, you know, high, you know, flower and that's what you always go for there. So you think you're going to do that with edibles too?

Miranda 8:07


Brandon 8:07

So here's, here's the good thing. Is that the picture you just painted there? Let's say that person has the worst experience ever with their edible high, they're not going to stop smoking cannabis, they're not going to stop using cannabis. They're not going to start talking shit about that they're not going to join D.A.R.E and you know, get a Reefer Madness tattoo across their neck. Like they're good to go. You know what I mean? Like, they're not going anywhere. They're a long life fan. They could have the worst experience ever. They would wake up the next morning and they'd be like, shit, that sucked. Right and then light up a light up a blunt and, and continue about their day, you know? So like that that person, obviously, we want them to have a positive positive experience. And yes, from a budtender perspective, or any dispensary staff, whatever title that they're using. Yeah. Yeah, they need to have the ability to navigate that customer and qualify them properly. Which you know, that's one of the things that we offer in training from try comb. But it's outside of that it's having the understanding of being able to just like be real with somebody listen, man, Listen, lady, whoever you are, there's a good chance here that if you take this, you're gonna have the best night ever or the worst night ever, but you're an OG so like, I'm going to give you my recommendation, which is do not exceed a 10 milligram dose. Honestly, I would say keep it at five and see what happens.

Miranda 9:37


Brandon 9:37

Because if you want to get higher, wait till the next day and then take 10 You know, wait till the next day after that and then take 15 and work your way up. But hey, if you're totally cool with risking having a bad time, you just want to try and get blasted like that's on you, but this is what I would recommend. So you can still navigate that with people. The challenging part is where when you have a brand new person to cannabis that comes in, and they're like, my buddy takes this, my partner, my girlfriend, my boyfriend told me that this is what they take. So that's what I want. I was told to go get that Chiba Chew, it's just the first thing that popped to mind, I take two of their gummies, which is like 20 to 30 milligrams, depending on the dosing. And that's what I want. Sometimes it's hard to talk that person out of what their mind was already made up on.

Miranda 9:37


Brandon 9:37

Now, I've never worked. I've never worked in a dispensary, my partner Max has and many other people that we have talked to when creating our courses and, and whatnot. But that is a that is a pretty common theme that from what we understand is talking new people out of what they already want. And so it takes some skill set to be able to navigate that properly. And at the end of the day, the best thing that a anyone in a dispensary can do is to at least share their knowledge and their advice and try their best to guide people not dictate what to do just guide them through it. And if they listen great, if they don't, everyone has to bear their burden of their own responsibilities. And like that's that you know, so. But in the sense that a lot of newer people from all the budtenders that we've spoke with and the feedback that we we receive from people and also from as a cannabis chef and the different events that I've done, where I dosed individually. Most of the people are not coming saying, Yeah, I'm gonna be very careful with my words, most of the people are not coming to a to a budtender or to a cannabis dinner, saying, I want this without any experience. Most of them are saying, please tell me what I should or shouldn't take. Okay, then I what I've noticed, especially in the cannabis dinner side of things is I've had plenty of people who claim to be the Pro. And they're the ones who are like, ah, you know, I can handle I smoke all the time. I love edibles this and that. And it's like, okay, well, I'm gonna give you 10 milligrams, and we'll see how you know, come dessert, you know where you're at. And by desert, they're the ones that are like, you know, I've done many events at my home. And I have dogs and they were out and about, you know, my cannabis dinners were very different. But there's been a couple times where I've had people literally petting my dog for like 30 minutes, just like, stoned out of their gourd.

Scott 12:45

Just like sitting under the table.

Miranda 12:48

Laying on the floor, with the dog.

Brandon 12:50

And my we have at that time we had three dogs, the one you couldn't pet my German Shepherd would get bored after being pet for a while. But the other dog is a Border Collie, Bermese Mountain Dog mix, once he picks a human he's like, like, almost aggressive about give me affection. And I'd tell you, I remember this one time just sitting there with his eye, the the dog looked just stoned as this guy because he was in so much heaven from having so much attention. You know, but it you know, but going back to like dosage and stuff like that it's generally for the most part, people are asking what to take, they're not demanding. And what I found is that those who are in a demanding situation where they don't just go with the flow, they're generally the ones that end up with a bad experience.

Miranda 13:36

Yeah, I've definitely used like some of Max's pointers with writing that like back pocket note. And like, you know, you're gonna be okay.

Brandon 13:45

Yep, Note to self.

Miranda 13:45

Yep. Note to self. That's been super helpful. I feel like in interacting with patients, Maryland's a medical state, so we don't have adult use yet. That's coming up. So hopefully, things will get a little bit more free in our state. But yeah, it's a the back pocket node apparently has been very popular with the patients that I've directed in a direction.

Scott 14:15

And the term uncomfortably high, I feel usually gets my point across pretty well without being threatening.

Miranda 14:22


Scott 14:22

And no, no, I'm not telling you that you're not strong enough to take this. I'm telling you. It just might get weird, like weirder than you want it to.

Brandon 14:30

Oh, yeah. That's an interesting perspective. Or it's an interesting delivery to say uncomfortably high. Because, you know, there's two ways you can talk about, well, there's multiple ways but let's in this conversation, say that there could be two approaches of how you could discuss the adverse effects of cannabis with people okay. And one, which I think is probably a much better way, which is what you just said is explained is that you know, if you exceed a dose that your tolerance is comfortable with, which is, you know, blank. TBD. Right at this point, unless you are a regular cannabis, edible oral consumer ingesting cannabinoids, then yeah, you could find yourself in a situation where you could be uncomfortably high. Now. So I think that's a much more effective way of delivering that message. Because uncomfortable is based off of the individual, they get to define that. Now, the other side of the equation, which I strongly agree with, because of personal experiences, although it's wicked true, might not be the best approach, which is saying, If you exceed your comfort level, or your tolerance or your dose, there's a good chance, so you could end up freaking out having a panic attack and experiencing really bad anxiety. So although that is very, very accurate, and for the most part is the case, when people do have too strong of an edible high, what you're doing there is you're putting three things into their mind, right, taking out paranoia, panic attack, or an anxiety you know, four things. So, a lot of the times the delivery is setting the tone, and it's you're giving them the expectation of what experience are going to have. And as ever, as much as everyone talks a lot about placebo, there is a another equally real thing called nocebo, which is shall cause harm. And think of it as like, in the most generic sense, like, and I can't, I can't stand this because it's, it's so simplified. There's so much more to it. But like the law of attraction, you know, think what you get what you think is what you get, you know, think positively a positive things happen to you, you think negative things. There's some truth in that. But there's also there's, it's, there's a lot of layers to that for it to really effective and for people to practice without constantly feeling guilty because they felt something negative. But you know, as a professional in any professional setting, especially when you're talking to people about things that are going to affect their physiology, their psyche, everything. When you say things that are adverse and negative, you're just planting that seed.

Miranda 14:54

Absolutely. I agree 100%

Brandon 17:12

I actually have in a way, nocibo'd myself, because of some bad experiences that I've had, where I've talked about it. And I've shared that experience of I think in a way that I've actually perpetuated it by by being aware of it, but it's weird, because like in cannabis and everything, there's a spectrum of perspectives, and the majority, and I mean, the I don't know if there's a word that would describe it more than the majority, but 99 plus percent of the cannabis industry are saying, oh, yeah, just go ahead and take this, you'll be fine. And we need that balance of people who are saying, hey, yes, it could, can, possibly, and using words like that, while also painting a picture in this reality, like, hey, there are adverse effects to this, and you can get there. So I think finding a happy medium of being able to paint this like, you know, perfect picture of cannabis with a touch, a little bit more of a touch of reality would be even more effective. And I think a lot of it of like what you said, if you exceed your dose, you could reach an uncomfortable highs, a really good way of doing it, while also being very, very specific about the dose and what they should take. And then saying things like, you know, if you do start to experience discomfort, without even listening those symptoms, being able to say, here's some outlets and ways they could help you if you start to get a little bit uncomfortable. And in the cooking course I go through a lot of those because these are things I have done. And I recommend to people and I think one of the biggest things, and I'll pause after this because there's a lot of words just came out is just having a distraction.

Scott 19:03


Brandon 19:03

If you experience yourself getting into a state of discomfort personally and based off of the feedback I've received from a lot of our students, some friends of mine. If you sit there within yourself only, you're most likely not going to easily get out of it if you just continuously get in your head. But when you have a distraction, call a friend, call your mom, call your dad call someone that you can just have a conversation with, that's not going to like make you feel bad for getting too high or in don't call someone who just wants to talk about themselves because your mind is gonna go adrift, you know. Physically engaging things like Solitaire, I love Solitaire, and but with a real deck of cards a couple of times that I've gotten too high, I have a deck of cards. I'll just start playing solitaire because my mind is so engaged and I'm physically engaged with something as well. It's not just pressing but buttons on my phone. So things like that conversations, phone calls, any type of distraction that you're you're engaged with, it's great to remove yourself from yourself. When you're getting into that state of discomfort.

Miranda 20:14

I find that the phone is the worst thing I can pick up if I have gotten too high. Because it becomes it becomes a doom scrolling situation. Or I'm shopping.

Scott 20:29

Yeah, coloring is is a good one for me coloring because it's creative. And it's also kinetic like you are.

Brandon 20:36


Scott 20:37

There's the tactile of holding the pen or the pencil and touching the paper. And yeah, yep. I mean, yeah, I like to smoke and hike a lot.

Miranda 20:48

I like to go for a walk.

Scott 20:49

Moving. Yeah. If you're in a position to do that.

Brandon 20:50

Moving is good. Yeah, it's definitely good. As long as you're not moving too extensively that your heart rate increases, then people can mistake the heart rate increase with anxiety, which is a natural, you know, that vasodilation of THC, which actually can increase heart rate and promote blood flow. And you know, that that's, that is one of the positive side effects of it. But if you have any anxiety in your life, and you get that effect, without it, that physical response is a reminder, it's almost like a PTSD response to a negative thing. So that is why, you know, some people, they can't handle any type of cannabis because they already have anxiety in their life, and they get those rushes. And then when that comes unprovoked now they're like, Oh, my God, my body's telling me I'm having anxiety, even though I'm not so the mind responds accordingly. Right? And how amazing is it that this complete opposite as well, where other people, they experienced anxiety, 24 Fucking seven, and they stay take one hit of a of a even a one to one joint. And now they're like, they're normal. Their life is good, you know? And that's that, that paradoxical effect of THC, which is fascinating, I think, and why, you know, I did a post years ago on my personal Instagram. And it was like, one of my top posts ever. And then I read, I read it. I did it again recently on the Trichome page, which is just like, THC reduces anxiety, THC causes anxiety.

Miranda 20:58


Scott 21:01


Miranda 21:02

I saw that post.

Brandon 21:17

And the response, the response from people is fascinating. And it's one of those things, where would it be great to just say it does this.

Scott 22:08


Brandon 22:09

And that was it. This very, it would be nice if we could work in the world of definitives with cannabis. But we can't can't for a very long time. There's just so much going on. And even, you know, some people they, oh, with prohibition, there hasn't been research. No. There has been a plethora of research. It just hasn't been happening in our backyard here in the United States.

Scott 23:05

That's true.

Brandon 23:05

There's been, there's been plenty of research in the US. There's been plenty of research, especially in Israel.

Scott 23:10

Israel, Germany, yeah.

Brandon 23:12

Yep. Exactly. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot that we know. And there's a lot that we don't know yet. But I look forward to that world. I hear people talking in absolutes. And earlier, when I first got into cannabis, I was totally guilty of that as well. And when you realize that the things that you found to be true, weren't. And then you found an find another thing that you wholeheartedly believed in that was debunked, after that happens a lot for a while. It's discouraging, but it's also really encouraging at the same time. And it really shifted my perspectives on a lot of things out well outside of the cannabis industry of just not living in absolutes and whatnot, because there's so much that that we don't know that it will change, I guarantee, there's probably things that I'm going to say on this podcast that you guys may have believed in, that might change your mind. But then in five years from now, that very same topic, on that same page with will totally be different. You know, it's just a matter of like, will we evolve with that versus digging in and, you know, putting on the brakes.

Scott 24:20

That's a Yeah, that's an interesting concept that I haven't thought about just the general way that having this conversation can change and grow the way you think about other things as well. But but we say that all the time. You know, we are constantly saying, everybody's endocannabinoid system is different. Your Your mileage may vary. Your experience may vary. You know, the information they were giving you is based on the education that we've sought out on our own from reading books and taking courses and our own personal experience. But you know, what? pinene does for me, isn't what would pinene. And we you know, that's the kind of the great thing about having two hosts is often, Miranda and I have very different experiences. You know, my edible dose is way different than hers.

Miranda 25:11

Yeah, I'm a baby dose taker. Yeah. I can't do anything above five to 10 milligrams or I am in a very unpleasant place.

Brandon 25:22

Well, I don't you're not alone there I have the tolerance of a newborn right now to be honest with you.

Miranda 25:26

And it changed. So like, suddenly, like I was doing 25-35 milligrams and then nope, not anymore. So that was a really fascinating, like, just switch.

Brandon 25:38

Same thing happened to me. And it's been a couple of years. And I've done a lot of digging, I have various hypotheses as to why I think it did happen. And one of the things that I recently stumbled across is really what made it just I don't know if it made sense, but a light bulb went on. I don't know if you saw the blog article I sent out the other day about the Institute of Human Anatomy and the YouTube video.

Miranda 26:10

Yes, I did see that the other day.

Brandon 26:15

One of the things that we we talk about is, it's, Scott like you said that everyone's endocannabinoid system is different. I agree with that to a point. But how different?

Scott 26:27


Brandon 26:28

That's, that's the thing, it's like any anything. There, I said this before, there's a spectrum. And for the most part, like these outliers over here, that the few percentages on the and there's where a lot of people focus their attention on versus the majority of the world, you know, and it's a lot of that is with health, especially with health, you know, we're there are certain things that some people are very different on. But for the most part, a lot of us have a very similar makeup so to speak. And the gene expression of things can change. So like just because you have this library of genes doesn't mean all the books are open, they there are certain things that you do based off of your your exposure, say to toxins that will open or close certain books of genes, or these variants, there are certain things you can do based off of your diet that will open or close the these books of genes and either express them or an or not. And I'm not a I'm not a geneticists here or a biologist, I'm doing my best to explain this in a way that I can see that I've connected the way other people have explained it. So everything you do does affect your endocannabinoid system. But the way certain things that we consume affect us, for the most part is pretty, pretty straightforward. Like we can say that, you know, THC does this, CBD does that over there. And where I think a lot of the confusion with everyone's saying that everything affects people differently has to do with the fact that we don't understand how these things actually do affect us. You know. So when we look at terpenes, for an example, everyone says every single strain affects you differently. Well, I don't think every strain affects you differently. I think there are different categories that strains are that will fit into that have very, very similar effects. And when you look at the phytochemical makeup of these things, if someone sees that it's super high in limonene, or super high in this, or in the future when they're talking about like ketone esters, and alkaloids and other flavonoids and stuff like that, they'll be brought more into the conversation, but because we don't specifically know how, say limonene in conjunction with THC, through inhalation, effects people because that data is not out there. There's a lot of like, well, this strain effects me this way. This strain effects me this way. This has this effected me in blah blah blah blah blah. But the reality is that the combination of those compounds actually is doing for the most people like one thing.

Scott 29:21


Brandon 29:22

Simplifying this way too much, but that thing does one thing, but based off of your endocannabinoid system, your diet, your lifestyle, your metabolic health, your gene expression, all these things is going to determine if that that thing that happens. Does Is there enough of it to do the way someone else felt it? Does that make sense?

Scott 29:47


Miranda 29:48

For sure.

Scott 29:49

I think we both talk about that a lot is yeah, how much sleep are you getting? You know, what is your diet like? Are you getting exercise are you you know, we talked talked before about how different terpenes affect different people. And I think part of people's problems with sativas often is that they're trying to use sativas, quote unquote, you know, because we all know that those terms are only so effective. But the people are using those, those strains the same way, they're using indica strains. And then when they get a different effect, they experience it in an uncomfortable way, or a different way. You know, if you're not up and moving with some of those sativa strains, I feel like that's where that like you said, you, because maybe you're because you're not active, it can go both ways. If you get too active, it'll raise the heart rate too much. But then if you're not active at all, and you feel that effect, then it's like, Well, shit, I'm not doing anything in my heart, you know, increasing. So that's, that's another way to experience that, quote, unquote, anxiety. You know.

Brandon 30:54

I think people who smoke weed and go to the gym are a rare specimen for their rare specimens. If I did that, I would be out of my mind, my heart rate would be like [imitates fast heart beat], I would I wouldn't even be able to, to handle it. Well, you know, at all. So gosh, kudos to them. And it's just so funny how, you know, like, so what I want to know is like, we spoke the same thing, okay. But my health is over here, even if we have like the similar gene expression we could ever possibly figure out simply, you know, but we have a completely different experience. Why is that, you know, or when you have people that are have a totally different genetic makeup, that they can smoke something, and they have the exact same experience. And they could be on complete opposite sides of the spectrum of health as well. And that's like, where the oversimplification of THC and a couple of terpenes I think it doesn't help. There's so much happening in this plant, there are hundreds of compounds. And there are plenty of things that we're going to find out in the future that are having a major pool in the way that these experiences are happening. And, you know, if the the other thing is to consider to go even further in layering, the complexity of this is we're not smoking a natural plant anymore. Yeah, I think it's a plan. But it's not what nature and not what.

Scott 30:59


Miranda 31:06

Right. Interesting, that's really well put.

Brandon 32:24

But as Murphy Murray said, Yeah, but as Murphy Murray said, Is that Well, humans are nature, and we've come in contact with this plan. So we through nature have created something like that is an evolutionary type of thing, you know, so are we really consuming what nature intended? Or did we create that new form of nature by, you know, the relationship we've developed with I mean, when you look at other things like potatoes, and bananas, and tulips and the Botany of Desire is a great documentary to watch. And cannabis is part of it with Michael Pollan where he talks about how humans in these four plant categories have evolved together, like there's nothing natural about that, or, or is it because we're both things that stem from nature.

Scott 33:15

My buddy hates the word unnatural, he hates it, because he's like, anything that happens is happening in nature, therefore, you know, and I get it as a word nerd, I totally can appreciate that argument.

Miranda 33:28

For sure.

Brandon 33:29

So I think sometimes the same with organic.

Miranda 33:32


Brandon 33:34

You know, it's like, technically, if you have two or three natural things, and they create something else. Well, granted, would that have ever happened in nature without the equipment and technology from humans? Most likely not. So I guess that's where you kind of draw the line. But my uncle's a farmer, one of my favorite things he would always say about organic is organic means sprayed at night.

Scott 34:04

That's funny.

Miranda 34:04

That's a good one. That's a good one.

Scott 34:06

So having said all these things that we've said about dosing and how edibles affect people differently, how do you incorporate that into preparing a cannabis meal? Right? Because you're you're doing multiple course meals at these events and things like that, do you? You know, I've Yeah, I've seen in the different like cooking competitions and whatnot where people will, you know, some people go heavy on the THC in the beginning and then kind of move towards CBD as a meal progresses, or some people kind of end with a higher THC to go out with a bang, like, does it kind of just depend on the type of event you're doing or do you have a kind of approach a general approach to how you build a cannabis meal?

Brandon 34:54

Yeah, in the Cooking with Cannabis course. So we just came out with I spent a great deal of time I'm outlining the experience. Okay, the true entourage effect of a cannabis chef includes the cannabis chef. So think of in the world of inhalation. When we talk about the the entourage effect, the terpenes play a major role in that experience. And let's just say terpenes plus, there's other things that we're not familiar with yet, but for the sake of keeping it simple cannabinoids and terpenes is the primary conversation, okay? So when you're inhaling something, you're getting the experience, the experience that you're getting is coming from the cannabinoids and the terpenes. When you're taking an edible, the terpenes do not matter. And if they do matter, it's not the same experience or effect whatsoever. Okay, so I'm not saying that terpenes have no medicinal benefit when they're orally consumed and swallowed. But the effect the experience is very, very different than through inhalation. Okay. So, with that being said, what I explained in the course is with the true entourage effect, what you need to do is remove terpenes from the experience and replace yourself with it. Okay, now you can utilize terpenes from an aroma perspective, and you can use them even from an aroma therapy perspective of set and setting, you can use them from a flavor perspective, I as a cannabis chef, I say look at terpenes as just like any other spices in your pantry, they're awesome to cook with. And they can do great things for food, and they can totally ruin food as well. You know, if the if you've put way too much salt or cayenne pepper in something, it's ruined it same thing terpenes you know, low and slow. So the reason I bring up the entourage effect is because there are a lot of different elements to it that a cannabis chef can do to essentially modulate the experience in determine the type of experience that guests will have at a cannabis dinner. So there was a couple of questions you had at the beginning. I'm gonna try to remember to touch base on all of them. But interject at any point here. So the very first thing would be outside of dosing. What's being delivered? Okay, what are you giving your guests there is no point in doing a cannabis dinner if you're going to hold the THC till the end. Because, right who's gonna have the most fun with your guests? The fucking Uber driver is gonna like what's the point? Right you need to give you need to give people THC in the very beginning, or you need to dose it throughout. I think personally give it to them in the beginning. Okay, people are coming to a cannabis dinner to get high. Let's be real Okay, not just for the food. Okay, it's also they're not there just for the for the cannabis but they're there for both equally they need to be looked at equally okay, that experience you're gonna give someone you know if you're if you're handing someone their their little doggie bag to go with their little, their little nightcap gift or whatever it is in their high just kicks in what's the frickin point. So you got to deliver THC in the very beginning. Okay, the dose, we'll talk about that next. But you definitely have to give them an experience that way, by the time that they get to the third or fourth course depending on how you're, you're, you're going about the dinner, you want to make sure that they're feeling something they're getting loosey goosey.

Miranda 38:33

Everyones's having a good time.

Brandon 38:33

Having a good time with their friends and whatnot, you know. So that would be that the next thing in the sense of what would be CBD. Okay, so what a lot of people do is they say, Well, I'm gonna give you THC now. And then I'm gonna hit you with some CBD later. And they make all these claims as to what the CBD is going to do for them right now. Placebo is my favorite drug. And I've already mentioned that once. So, you know, there's a you have a major effect on people's high when they're listening to you. And if you're confident and how you speak about what experience they're going to have, they will have that for the most part. A lot of people will and I I think that's like one of the most fascinating things about doing events like this is when you're dealing with intoxicants that are, they're a lot different than alcohol, you could do this with alcohol as well. But when you're dealing with it an intoxicated you can really have fun with painting the picture that people will see. So a lot of people when they explain the CBD will help bring them down from their high or mellow them out. A lot of the times that's happening because people believe it's happening. But when you look at when you look at all the human studies on CBD, and THC and how they interact with each other, the majority of the data that has like a placebo, shows that unless CBD is consumed before or at the same time as THC. And generally speaking in much higher doses of what people are recommending, it will not have an effect on the metabolism of THC if it's taken afterwards. So this idea that people can take CBD to help them come down from a high I've never experienced those effects.

Scott 40:24

I haven't either.

Miranda 40:26

I haven't either.

Brandon 40:27

Perfect. Okay, so look at that.

Miranda 40:29

Yeah, it's unanimous.

Brandon 40:30

Never. Yep.

Scott 40:31

Now I do use entourage. I do use ratio edibles, you know two to one CBD to THC edibles. And I find those to be more calming and relaxing than just THC edibles on their own. But again, like I said, that's the same time delivery.

Miranda 40:49


Brandon 40:49

Yes. And so. So that is a big thing. And in the course, I have a huge workbook that details and shows all the references to so I'm not just making this shit up or blog, you know, I'm like, Hey, man, CBD doesn't do this. No. I try and rely as many of the of the things. Okay, let's put it this way. When I have an opinion, I like to share, it's an opinion. But when I have data to rely on, I like to share that unless, depending on the data, some of the data is like, you know, how much strength is this really have? What's the pull here? So but with this, there was a huge meta analysis that was done on all these different studies about like the pharmacokinetics of TV, CB, TBD, CBD and THC and different things. And it was pretty as definitive as it could get much more so than a lot of the other individual studies are. Because just because someone is something's published on PubMed, or Google Scholar, you know, the type of study matters, like case studies, like, right, I take a case study is like it's meaningless to a point, it might provoke some interest. And then so All right, well, we need to get some more people involved. And and not just have one case study about one person.

Scott 40:57


Miranda 40:59

Or even 12 people, 12 isn't a very big number.

Brandon 41:59

Exactly. Yep. And then when you got to look at how is the drug delivered? What was said to these people? Is there a control? Is there a placebo? Like there's all these different things? Is it randomized, etc? Do the people who are delivering the drug know what it is? Do they know if they're delivering the placebo or delivering the actual drug that even matters? You know, so that's why they call like a double blind, randomized, controlled clinical, whatever it is, you know, it's like different levels. So a lot of the things that people say with cannabis are based off of case studies and anecdotal, or they're based off of invitro. So test tube studies, cell studies that, that are coming from other organisms that aren't living, okay. And even though like a rat is a great start in, in testing how things will affect a human, when you look at the density of CB1 receptors in different parts of a rat brain versus a human brain, they're very, very, very different. So just because that happened in a rat doesn't mean that it'll happen in a human. So anyway, back to this entourage effect. So delivering the cannabinoids, think of it as THC is the driving force, okay. CBD if delivered at the same time, or before can slightly affect that driving force. And the data shows that it primarily affects women more so than men and people with lower tolerances. Okay, so so if you're going to incorporate CBD and THC, then then do it in the beginning. Okay, what I say for the rest of the experience is if you want to feature additional cannabinoids, use it as a more of an educational experience, feature CBG and talk about the effects and the benefits that people experienced with CBG. It doesn't mean that you're saying it will affect you. But you can say in the second course we're featuring CBG: cannabigerol, a lot of people say they experience a reduction in stomach issues or nausea. It's actually been shown in a toothpaste to be just as effective as like leading brands like Crest or Colgate and different things. It's also it was I don't know if it's where it's at right now. But it was shown to be great for as a topical for eczema and psoriasis. So like you can use these this food, let the food be the vessel for education.

Scott 41:59


Miranda 42:34

I love that.

Brandon 42:54

Okay, and feature CBG so what's the next course maybe you're focusing more on a terpene okay, what's the course after that? Maybe you have some some hemp rosin to dab or you have a hemp flower to smoke because you You don't want to necessarily increase their level of intoxication, but you want to incorporate another conversation. Smoking hemp is fantastic, I love it, it's what I smoke now, it's I just, it's great, you can actually get high on it too, if you have a low tolerance, it's just doesn't last a couple hours, it's like 20 to 30 minutes and it's chill. So each course can be an excuse a reason to talk about other things within the plant, not just THC, not just CBD, and how you deliver that education could have an effect on people. If you say that see like, and this is my personal experience and other people have said it as well but when they smoke CBG it's a very lucid, clear headed type of experience. So if you just share that experience with someone and of course to say the reason that I'm I have this terpene in the food is the aroma profile will provide you with reminders of you know, Christmas morning now you're hitting the balance there yeah, now you're bringing them into a different state of mind. And now not everyone may celebrate Christmas so maybe that know your audience type thing or have two examples you know, but even people who don't celebrate Christmas know what it's like to walk into a department store and smell pine fir and go into walk into the grocery store and smell that time of the year which is you know, generally a pretty joyful time of the year I'm not a religious person but Christmas makes me happy you know. So So and then you're you're featuring like a smokeable thing and so forth and so on so so that's kind of the way I say in the sense of providing an experience or multiple courses is good THC out of the way the beginning if you want to feature CBD and effective way you have to have it in the beginning or do it first have a cocktail and the cocktail is CBD in it then the main the appetizer has THC, maybe the main has THC as well, and you hit him with like five and five or whatever your dosing setup to be. And then the rest of the thing is not intoxicating cannabinoids that you just give you an excuse to talk about. And these things are frickin cheap now. I mean, I remember--

Miranda 47:19

It's so true.

Brandon 47:20

Years ago CBG was like 30 grand a kilo. Now it's priced similarly to CBD. I can get the stuff yeah, really cheap now, because of the Farm Bill, you know, because of the fact that the we went from like this much production to this much like overnight, you know, I mean, the price is the crash with CBD alone. I remember in early 19, mid 19 working on a project with a friend. It was like five to $7,000 a kilo for CBD isolate. Now, you can get a kilo for like, anywhere from 500 to $1,000.

Scott 47:56


Miranda 47:56

That's so crazy.

Brandon 47:57

Online you don't even need a wholesale account. Yeah, right. It's nuts.

Scott 48:01

Well, I think you see that with the influx of products. You know, every gas station you walk into at this point has a whole CBD section sitting on their counter.

Miranda 48:14

But it's a medicine man. Yeah, head over to the Sheetz and pick them up like come on. The snake oil vibe our industry has inflicted upon itself.

Scott 48:26

Thank you.

Miranda 48:27


Scott 48:27

Thank you. Amen.

Brandon 48:29

Yeah, it's terrible. Okay, so. So now let's talk about dosing. Because dosing is important. There's two ways to approach dosing. There is the mass meal, or I'm sorry, not mass via mass appeal. There's the serving the masses, and just a few people in a private event. Okay, if you have a large event where you're working with dozens of people, you can't dose individually. You can't, right? There's no There's no way unless you have a massive staff and they're, they're like doing table side dosing, which is a possible thing. You know, how like, Olive Garden, they come by, would you like some parmesan cheese with that? It's like, fuck yeah, I want some parmesan cheese. Like of course it's a dumb question. But you know, you you could have where like a demi gloss or a chimichurri or any type of finishing sauce is dosed accordingly. And there could be different things and whatnot. But when you're when you're dealing with large parties, there needs to be as minimal options as possible. Okay, where you're, you're only serving five milligrams, maybe 10 Max, because you're dealing with mass. And people have the opportunity to have an uninfused course. Okay.

Miranda 49:46

Oh, yeah!

Brandon 49:48

So if someone says I only want to have five milligrams or I or I'm going to have the dose or I'm not, or worse, the first course could be five. The second course could be five and then There's CBD or something else after that, but people have the option to have an uninfused plate. And there's there's two things for that one tolerance but the other thing is, people should have the right to go to a cannabis dinner without getting cannabis.

Scott 50:15


Miranda 50:16


Brandon 50:16

That might sound weird, but [unintelligable].

Scott 50:20

Like end the stigma.

Brandon 50:21

Yep, I, my wife and I just did a sober month with everything. And we have some Budweiser and Heineken zeroes in the fridge. I never in a million years would have thought about buying non alcoholic beer. But we went to a bar for the first time in like three weeks. So we're we wanted wings. So we're like, well, let's see if they have any like zero alcohol beer, and they did it was Heineken 00. My God, it tasted amazing. It tastes amazing. And I was able to sit there and feel like I was being sociable and whatnot at a bar I felt accepted, you know, where it's like you see people and they're only drinking water at a bar. First of all, I think it's rude to the bartender because you're not increasing your your, your check size, you're only getting food like they they make money on volume. And a lot of that comes from alcohol. So yeah, can't have a non alcoholic beer anyway. So I think that people should have the ability to go to a cannabis experience and be sober. I think that that's important. So that's why it's good to have like, here's your flat dose, or you can skip it had an infused option. There's a lot of like challenges to making sure that those things are being delivered properly. And you know, for a simple example would be like a garnish is the infusion or the sauce. And you could have potentially two different types of sauces, different colors even. Or that the infused sauce is served in a tiny little ramekin of source that they get to put on there. Whereas the uninfused are already put on however, so like the service staff definitively knows that what they have in their hand is or is not infused, you know, the other thing is like, some like stitch like chop houses, they'll put the little sticks, it'll say medium rare.

Miranda 50:22


Brandon 51:20

Over, over done. How dare you bastard, you know, there are different things on there. They could do stuff like that as well, where it's like, very obvious. Okay, so there's, there's that the other side, which is where it was more my side of the equation, because a lot of the events they do were very small, I think, well, the largest event I ever did was 100 some people for High Times. But I it's funny, I didn't infuse a damn thing. And because that wasn't what it was intended for. And I had so many people coming up to me afterwards, like, I can really [makes stoned noises].

Scott 52:38

Oh, that's hilarious.

Brandon 52:41

Like this edible just kicked in. I remember the one guy standing on the other side. He was like, this just kicked in. I'm like, Dude, you're gone.

Miranda 52:48

Was that when you received your your top, your top cannabis chef award?

Brandon 52:53

It was it was shortly after. Because I did a couple projects with High Times.

Miranda 52:57


Brandon 52:57

Yeah. But that was well, that's a fun story. So we could talk about that afterwards. But um, so so the other side of the equation is literally individually dosing people, and having a small enough event, and I did cannabis education dinners where, you know, people paid for the education and the food and everything else was for free. Wink. It was great. So, you know, the gray area, you know? Yeah. So basically, I would talk to every single person. And as I was preparing the food, I was talking with them, it wasn't like they showed up and got served. My events were very interactive, very educational. There are long there were like five to six hours long, because I'm serving three or four courses. And as I am, a lot of the stuff was pre cooked, but as I'm like firing foods, so to speak, and getting it ready to go out. I'm letting them do their thing. Now blending them meet and greet and mingle and and experience each other letting separate myself from that. But whenever it came down to the infusion, you know, as a cannabis chef, there's a lot of responsibilities. And I think one of the least concerning things that cannabis chef should have is how the infusion gets to the person. Okay, I got a drizzling a super potent infused oil on top of the dish, is being a cannabis chef, if you know all the other things about cannabinoids and delivery and dosing and all this to share.

Miranda 54:32


Brandon 54:33

Now you could be the best chef in the world and claim to be the best cannabis chef in the world and you bake your infusion into your poundcake. And it's not properly homogenized. All your pieces are different sizes and you're giving one person five milligrams the next person gets 15. Right? Like that to me, doesn't mean you're a cannabis chef if you're just haphazardly infusing food. So the way I to do it is I would generally make a finishing sauce or a garnish of sorts, or literally just put the infused oil on top of their plate, or their taco, or whatever it may be.

Scott 55:12

Absolutely makes the most sense.

Brandon 55:14

Making like terpene infused herb oils was a great thing to do because, or like a chilly oil, something that had a purpose. It wasn't just olive oil, which I've done many times is really good olive oil. But like if you can take an infused olive oil that is dosed accurately, and you can infuse it and add some terpenes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and different things. And now maybe it is perfect from an aromatic perspective or a color you know, a lot you know, we eat with our eyes before anything else. So if you're able to provide a dish with some contrast, because you put this like beautiful, like blood orange looking chili oil on the dish, and it pops the greens and it makes the browns and the dish, uh, you know, less blah, it just makes it dance like that's effective. You know?

Miranda 56:01


Brandon 56:01

So. So I would, I would dose people individually. And I remember I had this this guy, What a sweetheart of a girl that I met. She had a lot of challenges, mentally and physically, that she was really excited to explore cannabis for. And I went a little bit outside of my comfort zone in the sense of trying to help her because I'm not a doctor, you know, I can recommend that I can point fingers at different resources. But I went a little extra with her because I felt really bad with the things she was going through one and a half milligrams, and she has a near psychedelic experience.

Scott 56:43


Miranda 56:43


Brandon 56:45

So she came to dinner. And we did some vaporization for like flower vape that's how I like to start it because I wanted people to immediately have some type of intoxication.

Scott 56:57


Brandon 56:58

And then I would go into an infusion. And I remember I don't think I dosed her like, second or third course with like, 1.25 milligrams because the oil I was using, I couldn't measure out to be that accurate. Yeah, um, and towards the end of the night, she's like, I am on another dimension, but it's controlled. And she said that was controlling it, where were the people at the event, and the interaction, the distractions. So and then I have other people where I was like, listen, put as much on there as you want because I knew them personally. Have at it, like, you don't want to have an oil bath with your you know, whatever. But like you know, if you if you want more just take more like go go smoke outside wherever you want to do. So. So that's that's that I think there's a medium place where you know, I someone I want to talk to in great detail is Chef Christopher Sage, the herbal chef. He and Chef Holden Jagger are my favorite cannabis chefs. I've met them both I've experienced their food both. I've become more friends with Chef Holden, I don't really know Chris Sage personally, aside from meeting him briefly being at one of his dinners. But I, God I think that and Chef Holden is doing more on the R&D side now with with recipe development, whatnot. But I think Chris, Chef Sage is the leading example of what a cannabis chef should strive to be. And even outside of myself that I would love to take that that be that person but I'm not because of the way he's creating these experiences is like this Michelin star experience.

Miranda 58:26

It's a journey.

Brandon 58:42

Like, like Thomas Keller and [unintelligable], and, like, just amazing, amazing, amazing delivery, and when we have very different styles of food, so I think to if someone could kind of maybe even hybridize our approaches of like my dorky science side of things with, like his delivery of it, and preciseness as well, that he's very keen on, and I'm sure there's things that we differ in opinion on which is totally fine, but I just think he is fantastic. But he does a lot of he does larger dinners, but from what I can tell from his social he also does this like medium size where there's like 20 to 40 people but he has an entire staff and and the servers and everyone are doing the education. Right and his his kitchen staff are a part of that experience as well. So they are making sure that people are dosed or not dose I'm pretty sure with his stuff, you can always get a CBD only or an uninfused dish. So the way that he's like going about the dosing, it's throughout from what I understand, and I know my my experience was I think every dish had like two and a half or five milligrams, the one I was at this is also back around '17 or '18. Um, but there was always the option to have it unconfuse. So if you have a service staff and you have people that are able to keep things in check to make sure that like, this person doesn't what this course does, and that person does, or this person doesn't know if they want five, or 10. So we're gonna start them off, and they're able to keep track of all that great, you just got to know there's a big difference between mixing someone's rare steak and well done steak up versus 10 milligrams at 20 milligrams or things like that, you know, so. So in the world of the entourage effect, the dosing obviously, determines the experience, but how you're delivering that dosing, will as well because you can tell people that I'm going to give this all to you in the beginning, we're gonna have a freaking great time. And in 45 minutes or an hour, y'all are going to be just having a blast. Or you can take more of this party vibe to it, or you can do like two and a half, two and a half, two and a half, two and a half and say you're you're not looking to take them on a roller coaster, you want to take them on a, you know, a long and slow journey to our destination, and like you want to help maintain that for a while. So the other thing that you can do is incorporate inhalation and digestion at the same time, which was my personal favorite way to go about things. So you guys can see this because we're looking at on a camera, but for everyone else, I've got one finger down at my near my waist and another one up near my head. Okay, so what I like to do is serve an edible and an inhalable at the same time.

Scott 1:01:28


Miranda 1:01:29


Brandon 1:01:29

So what's gonna happen here is that the, the edible high is, or I'm sorry, the inhalation high is immediately going to spike up. That's why these fingers are up here. So you're immediately going to spike up. And then what's going to happen is as the edible high is slowly working its way up the inhalation high is coming down. And where they meet right here is like, Oh, amazingness, and then to continue to micro dose with an edible, so that this will kind of just stayed in this low valley type of or short. Yeah, low valley, whatever. I don't want this roller coaster, I just want like a small wave to kind of go through there. And you can maintain that with edibles. But you can also maintain it with little inhalation highs here and there with like flower vaporizers especially are fantastic for that concentrate vapes. Just a regular vape pen, you can get a lot [snaps fingers] like that, because a lot of them are so smooth, you don't even know. So I think flower vaporizers, where you have like little tiny like quarter gram measured out. And it's a one to one or like a low potency THC, robust terpene profile, you're doing it a low temperature that people can get just enough to like really feel it without being overly intoxicated, even if they do have a low tolerance, which is what's really good with that type of perspective. So one of my things I can recommend is aside from set and setting, while there's a lot of other things, but one thing that's really cool is in the sense of like, the way you explain something will determine the effect that someone has. So let's say if you've got like a little gift bag for someone to take home, all right, if you have a little chocolate that you prepared, or even if it's a edible product from someone else that is one of your sponsors, or donated it for your event. You could tell people listen, in about an hour, when you get home, and your your shoes are off and you're slipping into something comfortable, I want you to take this, it's only five milligrams, it's got this in, it's got that blah, blah, blah, regardless of what's in it. If you could say, I want you to take this, I want you to reflect on your evening and think about the new friends that you've made. Think about the different experiences you had tonight. And I want you to just slowly drift off into the most blissful night's sleep, ever. That simple little sentiment behind the delivery of this little nightcap, so to speak. Could be could make all the difference in the world and the experiences someone has when they wake up the next morning and they're like, oh my god, that was fantastic. I slept so good tonight. And they probably were going to sleep really good anyway. But because you told them and you've asked them to reflect on these things that they experience, then they are going to remember that experience. They're going to remember you they're going to share that with their friends and with their family. And now it's not I just went to this dinner and I got high it continued to when they got home it continued to the next morning. That's making an impact and you can do it with your words, regardless to a point what's in the product that you're giving them. And that's where I think the power of suggestion is an amazing tool for a cannabis chef or anyone who's in the spotlight, so to speak at these infused dinners, because the chef can be in the kitchen and be totally cool with that. But if they have their their co, their companion to be the one that helps facilitate the experience that people have, I think that that alone has a role in cannabis dining experience. It's like a maitre d. So to speak, that could play just or a sommelier, like a wine sommelier, and they talk to people about the wine and the effects and experiences of whatnot. That type of role could could be a huge one in the cannabis space. So yeah.

Miranda 1:05:32

That's fabulous. I'm circling back around to that whole experience and, and talking about that experience. I'm an aromatherapist. So I, when I was working at the aromatherapy shop, before I got into the cannabis industry, people would come in looking for something to like, uplift their day, and get their day going. So you know, you would do a bunch of like citrusy, piney things, and then I would always give them a little something for the night time. That was something that was very important. I'm like, yeah, you've got all these like buzzy great, like, you know, lemon oil, grapefruit oil. But how about a little, like lavender and balsam for the night? Just to send you off on like, an equally wonderful day. So yeah, I totally agree with that.

Brandon 1:06:28

Those those extra steps of trying to create an experience regardless of whether the experience is based off of the compounds of which are delivered, or the conversation that's delivered. I'm good either way. And I, I used to have this, I don't know how to explain it. I really don't. I'm stumbling on my own words here because I don't want to speak improperly here. But I used to be headstrong, on exactly what is causing what and why. And I even a little OCD about it, like what the data says this, right. And there's a lot of great data out there. And I really believe in it. But there's so much data as there's so much of data on the placebo effect and power of suggestion, and the manifestation of ideas that can easily be implanted into people's minds, that I that I take the approach now of, I don't care what it is that's helping people, right, as long as they're, they're being helped from a medicinal standpoint, I also don't care what it is that is creating the effect that people have, as long as they're having a good time.

Scott 1:07:57


Brandon 1:07:57

So I've taken a kind of a, I don't want to I've definitely not taking a step back from the science, but I've taken a step forward on the ability to just be a magician, when it comes to facilitating an experience that someone has, yeah, and there's, there's like, like, I was much more creative, believed anything, like I was very influential. When I was younger, I feel like and I and I when I realized that it took a hard turn to the other direction, you know, so I guess it's like a part of the old like the old hippie me where I wear like tie dye shirts and Jnco jeans. It's like, that wants to be like this free flowing free spirited, like hippie type, you know, I'm not now but it's rooted. It's, there's a part of it, where I just, I just love this idea that that humans have so much more control over themselves and others than than they think. And their words matter and their intentions matter. And there's that the saying and I don't know who originally said I've never been able to find the the original person who quoted it but actions speak louder than words is what a lot of people say. I used to really agree with that. But now I disagree because I think they're your words can create actions and actions create words equally. But you know, I could ruin someone's day like that [snaps fingers] with my words, so much more so than with my actions. You know, and I could have a longer lasting and probably more profound and affect a lot more people with my words because of like microphones like in front of me versus doing something you know what I mean? So yeah, there's there's like there's like some, there's a touch of just me battling with myself with some of the philosophies and or perspectives I have with cannabis and science and the hippie dippie side of the equation as well you know, but If anyone is looking to be a cannabis chef, or is a cannabis chef, or is it just intrigued by it, the one thing that I hope if you can take anything out of listening to this podcast, it's that you as an individual have an incredible responsibility in the experience that people have, well outside of the science of cannabinoids and how they affect us, so there's a lot of it falls on your shoulders than the way that the experiences that people will have, there's a lot of things you need to understand, like dosing and how you're dosing these things. When you're dosing these things, identifying tolerance and properly homogenizing your infusions into your recipes and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But if you're able to know all of that, which is something that people can easily learn, but then take your own unique spirit and and employ that into the the the event that you're going to have, which can vary because you can do different things for different events with different people, which is what's kind of fun as well. You just have you can you play such a role you are the entourage effect that that's the bottom line point is a is a chef, or a event host. Anyone who is presenting cannabis to someone is a part of that entourage effect. And I think that's a really cool thing. And I've had some students that have taken the course say they never considered that they're always putting cannabis first. They're always putting maybe the lighting and like the music, or even like, you know, the the decorations, but they've never really put how much their voice matters when it comes to this experience that people will have for cannabis.

Miranda 1:11:46

Alright, guys, thanks for listening. That was chef Brandon Allen with the Trichome Institute, as we had mentioned before, and Scott and I will be talking with him again next week. The second part of our interview with him.

Scott 1:12:02

Yeah, you can hear the second part of the interview where we kind of transition more from the actual edibles and conversation about entourage effect into him breaking the news to us live right after that first portion of our interview about the you know them being the victims of this ridiculous cannabis censorship with the deactivation of their Instagram account. So yeah, make sure you stay tuned for the rest of that conversation. Make sure you go and check out the Trichome Institute at And check out Chef Brandon at Chef Brandon Allan on Instagram, check out their YouTube channel.

Miranda 1:12:45

Which is just Trichome Institute on YouTube on YouTube.

Scott 1:12:48

Yeah, where you can find not only the stuff from Chef Brandon and about the cooking class.

Miranda 1:12:53

But also videos from Max.

Scott 1:12:55

Yeah, videos for Max, information about you know, there are other classes, about terps, about all kinds of things. There's lots of great free resources up there, even if you're not taking classes, but

Miranda 1:13:09

Yeah, and to educate yourself a little bit more about cannabis.

Scott 1:13:12

We definitely endorse the Trichome Institute. Yeah, and the work that they do for sure. So, again, I am Your Cannabis Coach.

Miranda 1:13:21

And I am Our Lady of Maryjane.

Scott 1:13:23

Yeah, make sure you smash that like, follow, even share if you're feeling friendly.

Miranda 1:13:30

Give us some feedback.

Scott 1:13:31

You know, as we just spoke with, with Chef about, there's a community here, right? Yeah, build it up by you know, spreading spreading the information spreading the love with the content creators and the educational resources that you like and that you think are useful for you and might be useful for other people.

Miranda 1:13:50

Hear! Hear!

Scott 1:13:52

Alright, y'all take care of yourselves and each other.

Miranda 1:13:55


[MUSIC - "Homebrew" by 311]

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