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Episode 18 - More with Chef Brandon



Cheech the Chihuahua grinning at the camera.  He has dark eyebrows painted on his brow.

In this episode, Scott and Miranda continue their interview with Chef Brandon Allen of the Trichome Institute. The trio discuss censorship on social media, rebuilding cannabis communities, and gush over the cuteness that is Cheech.


UPDATE! The Trichome Institute's Instagram has been reinstated!


Episode Links









Transcript

[MUSIC: "Gimme Three Steps" by Lynyrd Skynyrd]


Miranda 0:18

Hello, and welcome to The Heady Conversations with Scott and Miranda.


Scott 0:23

We welcome you back again friends to join in on our conversation with Chef Brandon Allen from the Trichome Institute. We told you last week all about the Trichome Institute and the good work that they do in education for bud tenders and aspiring--


Miranda 0:43

Cannabis chefs.


Scott 0:44

Yeah, cannabis chefs, cannabis professionals in a number of different kind of...


Miranda 0:52

Capacites.


Scott 0:53

Yeah, areas of expertise. You can get education from them in a lot of different ways. So yeah, as we mentioned at the end of the last episode, and teased a little bit at the beginning of the last episode, Chef Brandon informed us while we were interviewing him that they had just discovered about 30 minutes before we got on our zoom call that their Instagram account with 45,000 followers had been deactivated.


Miranda 1:22

Yeah. So there's that bit of Instagram censorship that we talked about a few weeks back, right.


Scott 1:29

So yeah, we thought that it would be interesting to continue that conversation with somebody who was in the process of going through it. And yeah, we just had a lot of fun talk with Chef Brandon. And honestly, so we kept going. So we hope you are enjoying the things that he's talking about. Again, we encourage you to go check them out, and check him out on the different social media platforms that they are still on. You know, fingers crossed, knock on wood, maybe their Instagram has been reinstated by now.


Miranda 2:00

Fingers crossed!


Scott 2:01

Or maybe they've got a you know, second account up and running. But in the meantime, you can go find them on the other areas that we've already linked on the website. And we'll be linking again, with all the information for this episode.


Miranda 2:14

But yeah, here, enjoy some more with Chef Brandon and Scott and. I!


Miranda 2:19

I dig that.


Scott 2:21

Yeah that's fantastic.


Miranda 2:22

I mean, I, I went to culinary arts school. And cannabis has been something that's been on the forefront of my mind. And even just cooking for myself. So it's been Yeah, I'm definitely going to sign up to take this class, because I think it's really important to sort of figure out all of the amazing things that go into preparing a meal, and all of the different things that you can use.


Brandon 2:49

And you know, for anyone else who's listening in that wants to take the course, there's a lot to learn. It's our most advanced course. And the biggest thing I want people to understand it's not a cooking course, I'm not here to teach you how to saute and flambe, the difference between roasting and braising, pan frying versus deep frying and all of that. This is a course where you come to with your knowledge of food. And you're going to learn about how cannabis works with food and how terpenes play a role. And you're gonna learn about some of the things that come from a philosophical and entertainment perspective, like I've shared on this, that will help you become a confident cannabis chef and responsible cannabis chef. And I do go through all the different types of infusions I show in video, the ones that make sense to show others I describe and text in the workbook, because some of them just don't really matter. Some of them, you can understand it in theory without having to be walked through it. But the most important thing with the courses, you know, there's, there's this gray area of cannabis, there's plenty of chefs that are taking this course that are doing things illegally, there's plenty of chefs that are taking things that have access to a lab test around the corner, and they can they can just do any event that they want. And that's that. But there's again, I talk a lot about spectrums. That's the spectrum of, you know, black market, great market to white market, however people want to describe it. And so with with that, I'm not here to like, be completely in the legal zone, because I know the majority of students taking it are so in the things that matter, like dosing and proper homogenization of foods and extraction efficiency of these different bases, the different types of products and cetera, et cetera. I go through a lot of it. So people in regardless of where they fall in the spectrum, can at least properly make an infusion. You might not know what the dose is because that's the reality of working with the flower infusion as an example, it is impossible to know what your dose will be because it's impossible to know what your extraction efficiency will be. And it's impossible notice that the flower you have does represent the laptop So that came with because that's not the flower that was lab tested. Right? Flowers the most challenging.


Brandon 2:58

And those lab tests do change, like the older the flower is, etc. So you're never really, truly going to know.


Brandon 5:16

Yeah, and even if you take, like, you know, age, the aging and the degradation of cannabinoids is, yeah, it takes a long time, it takes a long time for anything significant to happen. Even if it's stored really badly, it still does take quite a bit of time. But but it's just the idea that, you know, whenever whenever a company gets flower tested, they're picking the cream of the crop.


Scott 5:42

Right?


Miranda 5:42

Absolutely.


Brandon 5:43

Not picking the little popcorn, but at the bottom of the plant that hasn't gotten the amount of light of the other side. And I'm not a grower, but I do know that there are huge variances in the different positions on a plant, let alone the where it's at on the rack. Was it on the external? Was it in the internal? Was it on the end? Like it just varies? You know? Yeah, if you look at the carbohydrate content of Gala apples on a single tree, they're going to vary, you know, right. Now, when you're smoking it, it's not that big of a difference. But when it comes to digestion, and you're you're talking about the amount of milligrams of THC, and then you include extraction efficiency, which is going to vary based on every single type of fat and or alcohol or whatever else. Yeah, you could go and you can say, Oh, well, this is going to be 10 milligrams each. And really, it's 20. Or, yeah, it could be, it could be three, it could be two milligrams. That's the challenge with flower, but But I go through all these things in the course. So at the end of the day, regardless of what type of market someone is in, they can to the best of their ability compared to all the other resources out there that I know of feel really confident about the infusion that they are delivering someone and not just the infusion, but the experience that they can provide them.


Miranda 6:59

That's fabulous.


Scott 7:00

Well, yeah, I mean, the the videos that I've seen from you all in general through the--


Miranda 7:05

Trichome Institute.


Scott 7:06

Yeah, the classes that we took personally, and of course, all the stuff that you guys put up on Instagram and whatnot. So all super professional and great and entertaining, too. You're very good on camera. I know we're not using this video today. But you know, you're [unintelligable] but yeah, I very much look forward to checking out the cooking class as well. And I think people will be, you know, very happy if they haven't checked you out yet to, you know, look into what you all are doing. And you know, I think we look forward to continuing the conversation too yeah, as you develop new courses and get into different aspects. I know Max is involved in the the psychedelic side of things and that medicine as well. And that's something that we haven't talked about yet on the show, but both of us are very much in support of and have an interest in talking about in the future so--


Miranda 8:01

Yeah, it's it's it's been a wild journey.


Scott 8:04

Yes.


Miranda 8:05

Because we just we just got back from DC this weekend, because we went to the National cannabis festival down there. And DC is a completely different world from Maryland.


Scott 8:14

Yeah, you were just talking about black market vs gray market. And yeah, DC is the definition of that.


Brandon 8:21

Well, there's no regulation, there's no industry, there's just a decriminalization, and like question mark.


Miranda 8:29

It's a gifting market. It's a gifting market in DC.


Brandon 8:32

Sure.


Miranda 8:33

So they have their medical cannabis dispensaries, but, um, if you want to buy a t shirt from the guy on the street, he'll give you an eighth of weed.


Scott 8:46

Right. Buy a t shirt for $50 and you get a gift to go with it right?


Miranda 8:52

Yeah.


Brandon 8:52

It's just [unintelligible] it's one of those like one of those thick collared 100% Cotton T shirts that shrinks like just by looking at it, you walk outside in the heat and it reduces two sizes.


Scott 9:06

But those are the only events that I've been to so far myself culinary events that I've been to have been DC pop up so I've never been to like an official cannabis meal and like Denver or in California somewhere up in British Columbia or something. So


Miranda 9:22

And we just started having CBD dinners here in Maryland.


Scott 9:25

Yeah, there was just a CBD cooking competition here locally. So yeah, I mean there's definitely movement going on in that area. But as you said it's mainly black and gray market not necessarily on the up and up.


Brandon 9:41

Well, I think the I'm gonna I might ruffle some feathers here but I'm going to.


Miranda 9:49

Go for it!


Brandon 9:50

CBD dinners to me are just hilarious because like, you're not going to feel anything unless Unless this is where what's interesting thing right now is that there are there are companies like just to pop their mind Trojan Horse is one Oakcliff is another where they are and there's there are others but they are dosing their gummies or their edibles based off of the legit 0.3% THC. Okay, so if you take a gummy and you make it five grams by weight 0.3% is a significant amount of THC. So if we do 5000 times 0.3%


Miranda 10:23

Yeah.


Brandon 10:33

It ends up being like 15 milligrams of THC.


Scott 10:51

Right.


Miranda 10:51

Yeah. So you can get people high at a full hemp Sure. federally legal legal cannabis dinner. Yeah. And you can be any chef, you can be a you can do it all with your taxes. You're falling under your LLC, the whole kit and caboodle. Like because it's federally legal. Yeah. Now if you get if someone you get in an accident gets an accident on the way home because or to stoned and you get sued the might cause some issues with depending on your insurance company, if you were the one that gave them this intoxicant. But you know, that same could happen with alcohol. It just depends on the state. But yeah, someone right now can do a full intoxicating hemp experience. Yeah. Now, it depends on what they're offering with the infusion if they're getting a tincture that's really formulated based on that 0.3%. And they're able to deliver a couple of milligrams it with each course, like you can get people high. Now keep in mind, you're getting a shit ton of CBD at the same time with this ratio, so the CBD is definitely because it's being delivered at the same time is definitely going to minimize a lot of the intoxicating effects that people will experience. But there's also now like with Delta-8, and CBN. And what is the delta? What do they call it delta-0?


Miranda 12:15

THC-0?


Brandon 12:15

THC-0, and these different things. So that's one of the things I think is really interesting about now that wasn't necessarily a thing when I first got started cooking with cannabis and doing dinners is that a federally legal hemp cannabis chef is a thing and they can get people high. And they could also just have a dinner and they could have vape pens. They just have delta-8 in different vape pens and not even infuse any of the food. Now, are you a cannabis chef? If you do that? Yes. If you're serving food and cannabis, you are a cannabis chef. Now what is a chef is what a lot there's a lot of debate there what defines that which again, there's a spectrum. But you know, I, I think that it's a really interesting opportunity. So back to your CBD dinner that's there. If people are just getting like CBD isolate, or they're in there, they're hardly getting a milligram or anything of, of of, of THC. I think it's a good thing in the sense of you're able to provide people with an educational experience of destigmatizing cannabis and making it further normalized. But I just hope that those dinners, people aren't saying that this CBD is going to work all these medicinal benefits for you at the dinner, because that's where I I pump the brake hard and anything medicinally like, I don't tell people it will help with this or help with that. If people ask, I can say things like, Well, some people I've experienced benefits or anxiety with this or I deflect you know, because I don't think that most people even a lot of the doctors that are telling people to take this for that know exactly what they're talking about outside of anecdotal evidence because a lot of the data is based off of isolated compounds, or has nothing to do with terpenes and and cannabinoids and whatnot. So it's really hard to navigate that take this for that it's just a I really pump the brakes there but but tell me about the CBD dinner like what was it like there? Did you get high? Were they formulating things of 0.3%? Did they have other intoxicants that were hemp derived?


Miranda 14:27

Well, unfortunately neither of us got to go. Well, so there's there's another. There's another coming up.


Scott 14:35

The competition is coming up.


Miranda 14:36

The competition is coming up. The dinner just happened.


Scott 14:39

I believe so.


Miranda 14:41

I think it was this past weekend because everything was happening around 420.


Scott 14:44

Right. There were so many different there were like three or four different you know cannabis festivals in various parts of Maryland. But since we're so close to DC, we wanted to go down and check out National Cannabis Fest which was an interesting experience to say the least. It was was way, way.... It was very chaotic. Yeah, it was.


Miranda 15:06

But I feel like I'm definitely gonna go check one of them out because I'm curious. There's a lot of atmosphere that goes into play with the dinners that are being done, which I'm into. Um, but yeah, I just I was like, CBD dinner. Cool. I liked I love CBD. But yeah, it's a very beautiful location. The atmosphere looks very beautiful. So I'm excited to see what it's like.


Brandon 15:38

Do you think that a lot of the CBD only type of things regardless of the amount of THC that could be added into the infusion? Do you think that a lot of people are doing it just for the sake of normalization, education and just getting people used to having something that does have to do with cannabis. And knowing that a lot of the people are just going to show up blazed over their mind anyway?


Miranda 16:04

I think so, honestly.


Scott 16:06

From from what I've saw from the flyers for the competition, it looks like it's predominantly CBD flower growers, but also these CBD shops that are selling things like the Delta-8, etc, that are competing in this cooking competition. So it's being put on by a guy who's basically a bulletin board for local cannabis companies, which is not that we do. Yeah, basically. Yeah, it's it's a networking and marketing event. More than it's a cannabis dinner experience. You know, it's, it's being built as a competition. I think most of the events he does are competition or like award space. He has like, an annual awards dinner. But it happens to be most of the people that advertise through his surface, you know, and he's got an app, and I'm not knocking what he does at all. But it's definitely a very different experience than I think you might have been thinking when you heard CBD dinner.


Brandon 17:11

Yeah, yeah. So I think that I've been to a couple of CBD only events here in Texas. And it was amazing. And what was so amazing about it is that I'm in Texas, and there are people smoking weed, and I'm putting air quotes, right. And even though it was hemp, now, I'm pretty sure people were smoking plenty of marijuana and they didn't care because they're at this event. But it was really good for for these events. We're in the sense of normalization. We were the first Texas hemp convention right before COVID That was amazing to be a part of watching cowboy hats and boots, walk around and looking at the you know, these different things. We just said event with Texas A&M, it was all hemp based and it was awesome. I even did a cooking demo there. And I did one in Austin last 420 celebration. I did a cooking demo and there was a bunch of suppliers there and these different things so in that sense of like normalizing and whatnot, I think it's really good. I, where I just in the sense of like a CBD only cannabis dinner. I think it's good for normalization. But if they're only going to be serving CBD isolate, here's the reality, people go to events like this because they like to feel different. They want to have wine, they want to have drinks, you know, like that's where someone's going to do CBD only and they're using it as an educational experience. And there's nothing intoxicating from the cannabinoids that like hey have some good wine and spirits and cocktails and infuse them and and like normalize it through that way. Otherwise you know I there's like this expectation of people have a cannabis event. I think the now because of these formulations people can get people high at CBD only hemp based cannabis events. I think that's amazing. As long as people actually know that there is THC, because that could also open up some doors for disaster people to hear hemp they think they're not going to get high whatsoever, and they end up getting getting that way. So I guess, you know, at the end of the day, there is no bad event in the sense of CBD and how it's being promoted. Yeah, it's just as long as like the people who are coming have the expectation they understand what to expect. So people aren't showing up and they're like, you know, getting this meal which is good. There's no alcohol there because they don't want to cross promote that even though the majority people are smoking and drinking at the same time. Let's be real. And all they're doing is like delivering CBD isolate and things like that. I think people will show up to that. Just be like, Okay, well, I don't feel anything. The food was good, I guess but like I don't like what are they going to take from that? So in states where people are want to do that, just be very mindful that when you're dealing with cannabis, hemp, marijuana or any ratio of the two, I think that there is an expectation that guests have for these types of things and you don't wanna let them down.


Miranda 20:02

Yeah, I agree.


Scott 20:04

Yeah, absolutely. That totally makes sense.


Brandon 20:07

So, I have a question for you all now. Yeah, I said, You and y'all at the same time.


Scott 20:13

I used to live in Austin. I used to live in Austin. And I've spent my life in Texas. So y'all comes out of my mouth every now and then to it's fine. Yeah.


Brandon 20:22

Well, I say y'all all the time. But every once awhile I go to say, like yous guys, because I like Pennsylvania. Yeah. Well, in Pennsylvania, there's also yinz there.


Scott 20:35

My girlfriend's from Pittsburgh.


Brandon 20:38

Yep, my wife and I met there. But anyway, so question for yinz. Yeah, each of you. Why are you doing this podcast? Not with me, but as a whole? Why are you doing it?


Miranda 20:51

I think, for me, there is a gap between consumerism and education, and community. They're all just completely disparate. In this state. Like there is no cannabis community, there is no like, yeah, it's a very strange, like, weird thing. I even put out a call to action on like, my Instagram the other day, I was like, content creators. Let's get together and do something and make something happen. Because it's not happening. We've got people who are doing great stuff over here, people doing great stuff over here, but they're not. They're not coming together to work together to build that thing. That community that benefits everyone.


Brandon 21:44

So I love that. And I'm going to share a perspective that you I think you'll understand. And then Scott, I'd love to hear your answer.


Scott 21:58

Absolutely.


Brandon 21:59

And that is that is that. Everyone talks about the cannabis community. And again, those listening, I'm putting my air quotes up. Okay. I don't think that there is a cannabis community anymore. I think that there are a bunch of individual little tiny communities and they all love talking shit about eachother.


Miranda 22:19

There is a lot of shit talking.


Brandon 22:22

It, there's a lot of divisiveness. Yeah, I've found within our own, you know, community so to speak. And that I struggle with that I've seen it. And the reason I've seen it is because one I'm I'm out there, like my face and my mouth and my words are out there social media, I'm in the public eye, so to speak. And our company, Trichome, also is. And I gotta tell you some of the things that people have said, through social media, the terrible things that some people have said, it's really, really interesting to that. At the same time, they're saying, Oh, the cannabis community, but they will talk so much shit about different things, because it might be just something that they disagree with. And I find it interesting. Cannabis is supposed to be this thing that brings everyone together. You know? Yeah, I've seen like, from earlier on, when I used to talk about the cannabis community. You know, when I first got involved six years ago or so, to now, it feels like it has just broken up a little bit.


Miranda 23:29

Yeah.


Brandon 23:30

And so if you have this goal within this podcast to help bring that together, and maybe pick up those puzzle pieces. That's awesome, because that is very much so needed.


Miranda 23:45

And I realize it's lofty. I realize that it's a big goal. But I think it can be done.


Brandon 23:52

But you can achieve a goal. And let's say that you don't reach the full. The puzzle is not completely put together, how even if you're missing half the pieces, it's better than where it's at.


Miranda 24:04

Exactly.


Brandon 24:05

Incremental steps of cohesion and the true sense of community and getting people to understand like, Hey, it's okay if we have different products or we do disagree with different extraction methods are there so that but hey, can we all agree that we're the at we have like the same endgame here, which is for people to not go to jail anymore about it?


Brandon 24:05

Yeah. And that's one of the Yeah.


Scott 24:29

And have their records expunged if they have already gone to jail, and yep, that they are economically able to get in on this pie baking as everybody cashes in on the cannabis industry. Yeah, all that stuff is stuff that we talk about regularly on this podcast. And that speaks to you know, why I've, you know, been involved in this is because I was a bartender for 20 years, right and kind of my natural evolution As a bartender, I started out working at college bars, where it was high volume popping bottles and pouring shots all night and nine out of 10 people that walked into that bar were walking in to get blackout drunk, you know. And then at the the end of my bartending career, the last eight, nine years of my bartending career before COVID, which is when I transitioned into cannabis. That was craft cocktails, you know, and that was focused more on educating people about spirits and educating people about, you know, mixing things together to create a different, you know, oh, I don't like Campari. Well, you've, you've only ever had Campari and soda. So you only know Campari one way, but if I mix it with some gin and some vermouth and making a Negroni for you, I'm going to present Campari you know, and, and as you said, the, the cannabis chef, you know, helps guide and create that experience. It's the same with a craft bartender, you know, the experience, they have with that cocktail being served it for me versus my friend Miranda or my friend, Brendan or, because where I come from determines how I make that cocktail. And the part of that cocktail's, history or you know, makeup that I think is most interesting that I'm going to stress to you and find a way to relate to whatever you like or you know, because I would talk to people about cocktails, the way I would talk to people about cannabis as a budtender. What do I want to drink tonight? Well, I can't tell you what you want to drink tonight. How do you want to feel tonight? Yeah, no. Are you feeling bubbly? Are you feeling fun? Are you trying to just forget your day a little bit, you know, that's gonna determine whether I'm gonna steal you steer you towards, you know, a Painkiller made with mezcal, or whether I'm gonna give you like a Bellini are two very different things, and you can be the same person and enjoy both those experiences. So back to you know what brought me to cannabis. And then this podcast is that desire to want to tell those stories, and find ways to help people relate to cannabis to demystify it. Like a good cocktail bartender does with spirits and cocktails. And yeah, to educate and have some fun, have some conversations.


Brandon 27:22

I think that's awesome. As someone who bartended for many years throughout my late teens and into my 20s when I started working at a craft cocktail place during culinary school for a brief time, what I found amazing was how many like you mentioned Campari, but another one that people just tend to just want nothing to do with this gin.


Scott 27:49

Oh, yeah.


Brandon 27:49

And so when or that, they don't know that the original Martini is gin, and it's not vodka. And there wasn't a splash of dry vermouth there was like equal parts to it. And when you put a real original Martini in front of someone with dry vermouth, and, and gin and a lemon twist and watch their eyes, their eyebrows, like go up, smile, and they're like, holy crap, this can taste that good. Like, I would never think to drink these two things together. It's really cool. So I think it's neat that you're you have that approach of cut? Well, a lot of what I was talking about earlier, and you mentioned again, is the that experience an entourage from you, we're creating that with with alcohol. And you're taking that and you're applying it to cannabis. And I think that your experience with alcohol is definitely going to have a huge huge impact in how you're able to deliver these different things to when you're talking about cannabis and whatnot. So that's really cool. So between the two of you, you have a very, like similar mission in the sense of what Trichrome does, or also just like what a lot of thought leaders in this industry do, which is we're trying to bring people together. Okay. Let's settle our differences and focus on where we the what the ultimate goal is, you know, and so by making it accessible, bringing people together normalizing cannabis destigmatizing cannabis and the stereotypes and some also the stereotypes are pretty damn fun, but, you know, negative stereotypes of, of what it is. And I think that you're, you're, you're both able to definitely accomplish this. With with your with your podcasts, and you know, some I've been into a lot of research on podcasts recently. 75% of podcasts don't hit their 20th episode. So you guys are so close to which I think is amazing. And so what am I 16 or 17?


Scott 29:59

You will be You recorded number 17. But you might actually be episode 20 When you actually air because vacations coming up and yeah.


Brandon 30:11

Well feel free to to do it for that one then I'll wait patiently. That's, that is a that's a huge feat. Like that is awesome. Congratulations. So that's interesting.


Scott 30:21

I hadn't heard that.


Miranda 30:23

And it was so funny, it was just like in December. Well, we had talked about it here and there. But like in December, I was like, alright, Scott, January, we're starting this. Yep. And he was like, alright, what day?


Scott 30:37

We've known each other for 25 years.


Miranda 30:39

Yeah.


Scott 30:42

And she, she, she's...


Brandon 30:42

You two are like two peas in a pod, for sure.


Scott 30:45

Thank you. She She helped me get into the industry. And then we both kind of left working in dispensaries because we were pretty disillusioned with the reality of the way dispensaries operate. At least here in Maryland, and this particular dispensary, which we're not here to sling mud at anybody. That's not what we do. But yeah, it's that is our mission now is just to be educational and entertaining, hopefully, too. Because that, you know, a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, right? Like, if you can make people laugh, they're more likely to keep listening and pay more attention when they do listen.


Miranda 31:25

Yeah.


Brandon 31:25

I'm so glad that you just said that. Because I realized that it last summer was the first time I had done like a live presentation and it was cooking related. And there was only a few people the show was a Boston was not cannabis related the demo was but it was a food convention. And it was in Miami and it there was like a fraction of the people that were supposed to show up. And I was like one of the last presenters of the far backside like of the, you had to walk three miles of the convention center to get to where I was presenting. And so there was only a couple of there was like maybe 20 people in the room. And I got up there and I like turned into a terrible comedian. But I had so much fun making fun of like myself and making fun of like people in the audience. I'm singling out and whatnot. And, and that was like, I don't need to take this super professional cannabis educator perspective, all the time. And I had so much fun with this. And then a couple weeks later, I did another one. The same thing happened. Now that room was full, there was almost 300 people in there. And people were laughing galore. And it was just a good time. And and that's when I realized just what you just said is when people are laughing, they're listening. Yeah, you just said and I've never heard anyone else say I'm sure people have but it was just like this epiphany that I had. So I like to joke around and swear and tell stories. And maybe the next podcast we can do together can be educational, but focused on like debunking stoner myths or talking about stoner myths, bring some giggle more giggles into the equation.


Scott 33:08

We've definitely talked about a few of them so far, but God knows.


Miranda 33:11

There are so many.


Brandon 33:15

So thanks for answering my questions. I kind of flipped the roll here. But I want to share something now with y'all that no one knows about. And it's not the greatest of news. About 30 minutes before our podcast, I found out that the Trichome Institute Instagram was deleted.


Scott 33:30

Oh wow, how and so our last episode


Miranda 33:35

Yeah.


Scott 33:35

What we talked about was legislation, but also yeah, censorship in the cannabis industry.


Miranda 33:44

Wow. Yeah.


Brandon 33:46

So I got this. Yeah, so I logged on this morning, I checked our messages. And I got this I put my phone down and I had a call and I picked it back up. And it was like you need to log back in and we've noticed suspicious activity on your account which I thought was weird because myself and Max and then two other people and Trichome have access to that as an admin the login. And every time someone logged new logs in it shows me where they're from, and I approve it. So because my phone is the one that's connected directly to all the approval and all the two factor all communication, whatever it's called. So I filled out a thing that was like they had to take my my name, my email, phone number, I had to verify like CAPTCHA images or whatever like this like that. And then it said thank you for submitting information. Once we can verify this is you within 24 hours, you'll receive a notification or you'll be able to log into your account. So it logged me out and then I went to log in and nothing. So then I go to my personal Instagram and I look up try comb. I had to type out try blank dot Institute if we don't exist, and now our page, it's it's gone. So maybe they taken it away because of that suspicious activity. But I don't know why they would delete a page completely for suspicious activity versus all logins are logged out and the page is still there. Right? I can see it right. And last week, I had two warnings. Last week, we had one before one was we were doing a hemp kit that we had for interpening training. And we put on there like the hemp kit was BOGO. And even though it's federally legal, hemp, or farm bill approved and all that, we got a warning for that. Last week or the week before I posted the terpene crystals that we have a the isolated terpenes that we have, that got removed, and it wouldn't even let me appeal it to say this is a FDA approved gra s generally recognized as safe food product, right? Coming from not Nope, that got removed. And then last week, I posted a little video of the interpening loop just folding in and out.


Scott 36:18

You just did a giveaway.


Brandon 36:19

Yep, did a giveaway it was removed someone someone comments and said, Where can I get this? And I said our shop page, the comment got got flagged for the promotion and sale of regulated goods. And then an hour later because I was unable to appeal that. Then an hour later they removed the whole post. And then it says like they it's under review. And then that's happened today. So so the chances are, chances are it's not looking good for us we have we have 45,900 plus almost 46,000 followers. So we grew 100% organically. We have never paid for subscriber boost or anything like that.


Scott 37:06

And we you know, we normally say things like that I don't think we have yet. But obviously this interview has not been a paid sponsorship, we wanted to talk to you because we believe in your academy and what you all do.


Brandon 37:17

Yeah, and you know, even if some things are a paid sponsorship, I'm good with that if people are asking good questions and have a good conversation, and it's not a constant sales pitch, which I think we've all achieved here. You know, but the you know, in the world The reason I asked you about what your goal is with the podcast, is because I wanted to share with you something that I had a goal even before we found out that our page was deleted today and even if we do get it back, this is still the goal. So because of were the fact that we're a cannabis related company, we are a federally legal we pay our taxes like any other company as an LLC, because we don't sell cannabis, they are no different than then you know Paul's Fencing, I just saw a fence and Paul came to name you know, we're totally the same. But because we are a cannabis education company we do talk about cannabis. So we are not able to pay for any advertising on any platform non cannabis website specific. We've we managed to get by on some Google Ad related things, but they were very, very small what we're willing to do, we can't do anything on Instagram, On Facebook, we've gotten declined a million times over again, LinkedIn won't even do anything with us, even though that they will promote cannabis, if it's through a university. So a university is good to go to have cannabis education, but we're not. So I wanted to start doing more podcasts and that's how you guys reached out as I put it on our Instagram, right and I would say I would say go check out the post though but it's gone. You know, I and saying that you know we are looking to our community for help in getting our name out there obviously this is a marketing effort. But we also have a lot of we as in myself and Max you know we have we dedicated our lives to this there's a lot that we can say that people can take value out of and we hope is education, we want to have a platform or have platforms to be able to deliver these messages and offer this education and provide value for free you know, and when we have a longer format conversation, people can actually get to know us and get to understand some of our concepts like earlier in the podcast I said terpenes don't matter when it comes to an edible we didn't get to dive into that and maybe we will or we can save it for another time but like that's a full conversation.


Miranda 37:33

Absolutely.


Brandon 37:40

It sounded quick like terpenes don't matter like right that ruffles feathers. I know for a fact people will hear that and be like no.


Scott 39:57

That conversation and brief before Yeah, now we understand. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that every listener of every episode understand. So yeah, you're right. Yeah, the longer format conversations allow for--


Brandon 40:10

the details that matter. And it's hard to get that message across. Because Trichome has always been kind of going against the grain, like from the conception of Max, let's create this company a while before I got involved with like, hey, a lot of people say these things, and they don't make a lot of sense. So let's talk about why they don't make sense. And what does make more sense. So Max has been phenomenal at that. But when you go against the grain, sometimes you're also pissing in the wind. And you know, it can be challenging. So short, little clips are hard for people to wrap their mind around. But a podcast is great to be able to talk about these things. So I think that in the cannabis space, podcasting is the number one way for people to really get to know other entities, other companies, other individuals and things that are cannabis specific. And for the people that are that are listening right now, I just want to personally thank you. And of course, I'm thanking you guys here too. But for listening to over an hour, or almost two hours of us having fun conversation here. This matters a lot. And you also don't realize how important your thumbs are. Anytime that you like something that's cannabis related, every time you comment, you add it to your story, it is helping these companies tremendously, tremendously, you know, because if a cannabis company can grow their page without, you know, trying to pay and trying to do these different things are paying influencers, like we've never done that we've never paid influencers to, like, do our things. Actually, I think there was one little campaign that we did, and nothing happened, it was a waste of money. That's why we we didn't do it anymore. But you know, your, what you're listening to what you're engaging in the AI at BT that knows that you've listened this far into this podcast knows that and it will adjust and shape the way other people are exposed to it. So please, like, even not just mine, but share podcasts that are cannabis related on your Facebook page, share them to your your network, like if you have a company and you have a newsletter base, and you say, hey, I really liked this, like, share it, put it out there say hey, there's some tidbits here I think he might listen to and like do your do your play a role in that community sense like you mentioned, yeah, of helping cross cross promote other brands and whatnot, even competitors, you can still support competitors, you know, in certain regards. So, you know, I thank you so much is what I'm saying to the two of you, Scott and Miranda for, for doing this podcast, for having me on. And to know that I sincerely value it, whether you have 16,17, 20 episodes, or you have 300 Because it gives myself and Trichome Institute an opportunity to hopefully make an impact. And even if we don't necessarily get customers, let's get some fans, you know, people who might like what we have to say and want to learn more and know who we are. Because even though if we want something we have might not be exactly for you, you might know someone someday, that can find it their way to come to our company and support us, which we appreciate. But, you know, the ability to chat with you guys and further normalized cannabis and, you know, have a people coming together. I know that we disagree on things. I just because we're humans, I know it should. But we're not focusing on that we're focusing on what we do agree with. And we have that common goal and that true sense of community of trying to, you know, normalize cannabis, and this podcast is a great way to facilitate that. And it's a big deal to be the, you know, we just had our profile deleted, that may be gone forever, to know that at least this conversation will live on and you're in control of it, and you get to share it and we get to share and that that's meaningful to me quite a bit. It's very meaningful tome.


Scott 44:17

And to us to


Miranda 44:18

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. I, I didn't think anything would come of me saying hey, check us out on Instagram. And yet here we are.


Brandon 44:29

Oh, you you've got a puppy in your lap!


Miranda 44:32

I do, he's just been sitting here.


Scott 44:34

Yeah, one of us walked by you before, Brandon. I think your German Shepherd walked by you a little while.


Miranda 44:34

Yeah. This is Cheech.


Scott 44:42

Yeah, we so we have three here but two of them get sequestered because they're very noisy.


Miranda 44:47

Yes.


Scott 44:47

Cheech can control himself so he's allowed to hang out.


Brandon 44:51

Cheech has a little special place in my heart right now. Because last February of 21, we lost our 18 year old little chihuahua and so a little Cheech there just Oh yeah, that makes me very sad and happy at the same time. So sometimes you know it's amazing how like something that's simple can make you feel so happy and so sad.


Scott 45:18

Oh yeah.


Miranda 45:19

I get it.But


Brandon 45:21

I'm seeing that little face a little smirk in the eyes closing.


Scott 45:25

You can see why he's named Cheech, you know, between the eyes he's also weed hound the minute you unscrew the jar--


Miranda 45:32

Oh, he's right there he's yeah, he's ready trying to get at it.


Brandon 45:37

Have you ever tried to feed your dogs cannabis leaves?


Miranda 45:42

No because we don't have access.


Scott 45:43

We can't grow, we cannot legally grow here so we can't access fan leaves.


Brandon 45:49

When the day comes so you find a way to get access it blew my mind my I've I've jokingly tried to feed my German Shepherd anything you could imagine if it's if she's like me if it had a mother I'll eat it like we're diehard meat eaters, the two of us. But aside from carrots, she will not touch another vegetable. And I can understand why. But like I've tried different types of leafy greens, lettuce, romaine, Romaine, spinach, cucumbers, peppers, like stuff drops on the floor while we're cooking. She'll come she'll even lick it Nope. Now if I'm salting and something pops out so lick off the butter and and go about her day. She's like, fuck that Brussel sprout you know, like but so I had some fan leaves that were given to me because I was doing some experimenting with like tempura, different ways to fry and you know what storage seeing how they would store properly and I pulled out my phone and like I let's see what happens that I have my phone and I put the leaf, ate it immediately.


Miranda 46:55

Oh wow.


Brandon 46:56

Chowed down. She ate like three leaves. I didn't want to give her any more because I didn't want her stomach to get upset. But it was like something connected her like she knew that this is good. Now I'm not sold on fan leaves for medicinal benefits. There's minimal cannabinoids there's not a lot of terpenes just because there are it's a leafy green doesn't mean that it's necessarily you know healthy or you have to drink or eat a lot of them for them to be effective in the sense of some of the cannabis related benefits on there. There's also limited data so we'll see what comes out but the point is that like I could not believe that something in her DNA said eat this. It was fascinating. Yeah. Oh my god she was chowing down she was taking like a little bite of lately and she just kept coming back for it's on my Instagram somewhere it's cute video but look a little Cheech they're just stoned out of his mind.


Scott 48:00

So speaking of videos you do you do have a YouTube channel as well?


Brandon 48:07

Yeah, so Trichome has a YouTube channel. I personally have a YouTube channel. I for a long time was doing live cooking streams and there's a ton of videos that are on there on picking that back up again. And you know I have so like if you Google Chef Brandon Allen, it's going to pop up on YouTube my Instagram will pop up and now when you google Trichome Institute you'll come to our website that's a good thing. But you know we also have you know the our our YouTube channel too.


Miranda 48:42

Cool hopefully by the time we get this episode up the Instagram page will be back up.


Scott 48:47

Maybe Fingers crossed. You guys can I know some people have I mean so I I've read I can't not cannabisqt, cannabis--


Miranda 48:56

Well, Tom Different had his account deleted not too long ago. I think it was on actually on 420.


Brandon 49:03

Really?


Miranda 49:04

Yeah. And he's had he's had to have like, he has different variations.


Scott 49:10

Yeah, there you know, people have backup accounts and such but I have seen a few different accounts actually get reinstated but it's been like, and then taking less amounts of work and time before Instagram actually does it but who knows, you know.


Brandon 49:26

We recently brought on a new teammate to Trichome. Nusheen is her name and she's done quite a bit with cannabis and has worked with different brands and it's so funny because we literally just had a a marketing slash conference call discussing like, things to do with social media and, and then separate from that myself and one of our guys Adam, if you ever message customer service, it's either me or Adam that responds so the Adam like Adam is more on the tech side of things. We were saying, you know, we should probably create a Trichome 2.0 And ask everyone to go follow it. Yeah. And now this Yeah. So hopefully, if it does happen, and we do not get the account back, and it's not just this weird verification thing, like popped up this morning, which I don't think it is, because I don't see why they would remove the page completely. I hope that between our friends and partners that we've we've worked with over the years are 16 some 1000 people in our current database we have, you know, we have almost 10,000 Students Yeah, believe it or not, will will help us build a build a new page, and, you know, stick it to the man so to speak, you know, the, the tech overlords you know, I, I, the canceled culture and the shadow banning and the censorship. What's terrible is that some people will agree that certain areas should be censored and shadow banned, and, and what and canceled. And everyone thinks that way until it does happen to you, right? Because you never know what will be next. So, you know, I looked at as, hey, if you don't like something, don't engage with it, move on.


Miranda 51:24

100%


Brandon 51:25

Move on, and let those who want that have access to it. And it's crazy to me that the Taliban has a Twitter but Trichome Institute just got deleted on Instagram.


Scott 51:37

Well, that's I mean, we, you know, one of the things that we talked about in the discussion of the censorship is people have said that it's being weaponized, that competitors are reporting more successful companies in the space to get their content taken down, to harass them into having their accounts deleted. So that, you know, and I'm not saying that Joe schmoes cannabis College has done that to you, but you don't know that somebody hasn't. Or you don't know that people in the alcohol space aren't? Or the tobacco space aren't tobacco? It's more than just cannabis competitors there, you know. So a lot of people--


Brandon 52:21

Without putting on my tinfoil hat. Yeah, I believe I believe that that is highly likely. Right. That it wasn't, though reason, but it contributed to, because on my end, all I can see on the the account status is your strikes. Right? We got three. And after that third one, and I've requested an appeal. Here we are. Yeah. Had I requested an appeal? Would anything have happened differently? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I flagged them. And I'm, you know, now like, a radar is on me, you know, right. Or targets on me, we put a target on my back, so to speak. But I think that it definitely could have played a role because it was this way, any industry, any category within an industry, there is ruthless competition. And there's a lot of shitty people, there's phenomenal people that are the some of the most amazing people on this planet. But and they are the majority, I wholeheartedly believe that the majority of people are inherently good. But there's a reason that most people go on to Yelp or Google reviews to write a negative review, right? versus all the amazing experiences they had where they totally ignored. Right. And you know, it people are more apt to complain, you know, you're you're a lot. Yeah, it's just people are more apt to complain and stir the pot and whatnot. And there's, there's a weird part of that, that I think kind of goes into just our history us as human beings, you know, as a whole. But, yeah, the idea that someone could potentially be weaponizing and saying, listen, team of 20 people, I want you all over the next month to pick a day and you're going to report this company, or Yeah, do that. There's there I bet someday there's going to be people through various tech companies, or there'll be people who will leave a company like you work for a dispensary that you don't like anymore. And I think it's very professional view to not mention that. But there will be people like yourself that will come out and say these guys suck and this is why so there will be people that will come out and say I worked for this company and they asked us to go and report our competitor and we got we contributed getting their paycheck. It'll come out you know, I hope it wasn't the case with us because I hope we don't have enemies like that. But I wouldn't be surprised if it most likely probably played a role into it. And it's funny because meanwhile, I just had a call with a woman the other day, who was inquiring about some things. And I told her who our competitors were and what they were good at. I just explained what separates us, I just tell them what why we're different. It's ever gonna take them all. That's what I say go sign up for every company, you can, if whatever you fits your budget. Well, what separates us is like a lot of the delivery of the content, how we educate, it's even the topic could be the exact same topic of someone else. But we feel we do a really good job of just presenting it in a way that it's enjoyable and fun and entertaining. And, you know, it's digestible and translatable to others.


Scott 55:41

Well, right. And you just mentioned briefly, whatever you can afford. And, you know, obviously, this is not an advertisement for Trichome Institute, but you all are very affordable, you know, whether it's the cooking class, whether it's the, you know, interpening class, it's all very accessible to anyone I think.


Miranda 56:01

Yeah, and you run enough specials as well, right?


Scott 56:04

Yeah, when I took the course I got it on the 420 deal, or whatever it was, and we, you know, thank God, we didn't get shut down for promoting you, because we were promoted your, your, your 420 deal that you did this year with the percentage off of the cooking class. But yeah, I mean, it's, a lot of the classes that you look at are pretty cost prohibitive for somebody that is probably making between $14 to $17 an hour, working in a dispensary, you know, and spending a lot of their money buying product so that they can then talk to their patients about what it is and what it does. So yeah, it's important for this, and like you said, the goal would be to be able to give it away for free, but, you know, making it as affordable and accessible as possible to as many different people, regardless of why they're coming to take it, whether they're just trying to increase their own knowledge, or whether because they're patient facing or, you know, they're in the recreational or adult use market, however, like to call it, you know, I mean, all of those people, I feel like, couldn't afford to take your classes and educate themselves and learn more, even if it's just about how the medicine affects them personally, you know,


Brandon 57:22

Yeah, I'm glad to hear you're saying that it's affordable, I've done a lot of comparison to our competitors. And I do believe that our barrier of entry is the same if not lower than a lot that are out there. Or it's more but the quality and quantity of what is being taught is is greater than so in proportional to their value it price point, I'd say it's still similar. You know, I wish we could give it away for free, I wish that we were able to focus all of our attention on creating videos that we monetize your YouTube and Facebook and different things like that, and be able to say here's all the education it's for free because we're able to make money through ads and make money through sponsors and money through clicks and stuff like that and and invest a lot of money early on in getting followers organic, but investing in you know, sponsored posts to pop up at the top and, and whatnot. I wish we could do that and have products like T shirts and and little gadgets like the wheel in the book to sell. But I wish the content itself could be for free. That would be the ideal goal. And maybe someday after federal at least federal decriminalization, right? Yeah, because I'm not I'm not signed up for whole federal government control of this industry, I understand the state state specific. But once we get to federal decriminalization, and, and hopefully that will change the laws with these big tech giants, where you can monetize an 18 or older video, or 21 and older video on on YouTube, that would be amazing. Because I think that we would actually probably be more financially successful if we could give it away for free and have the ability to advertise and stuff like that. But we're living in the in fairytale land here. You know, because it's just not the case. But you know, if anyone was were this way, if everyone goes to our site, and that little pop up shows up, I think you know, by now that means you're getting a discount code. So always keep that in mind. And we do run sales generally at least once a month you know, so I want to give you guys access to the whatever courses you don't have, I'm gonna give you access to because I I think that the two of you have the ability to make an impact in the community. I sincerely appreciate that. I appreciate your time today. I feel like you the y'all and I could continue on for probably another hour or two. So why don't we reserve some Yeah, future conversation maybe based off of feedback Some folks on here for another podcast, I'd love to get Max with his crazy schedule, but we'll try and get at a time for you all to talk about psychedelics and pterodactyls, and toadstools and all the fun things that he likes. He He's very entertaining and will cover a lot of ground of things outside of cannabis. Which is what we all I think love about Max, you know, so let's, let's continue this because y'all are good people.


Scott 1:00:31

and yeah, we will--


Miranda 1:00:32

Thank you! We absolutely appreciate it.


Scott 1:00:33

Like like we said we'll have our fingers crossed and your your battle with Instagram. But in the meantime, we'll send people to the website trichomeinstitute.com. Yeah. And add to the Youtube channel and to your Instagram, Youtube Instagram as well. And thank you so much again, Brandon, we really appreciate it.


Miranda 1:00:52

We really appreciate it. So much gratitude in our hearts.


Brandon 1:00:54

Love you guys. Thank you. All right, back to you soon.


Miranda 1:00:56

Love you too, thanks!


Miranda 1:00:56

Please. Again, thank you so much to Chef Brandon for coming on and spending so much time with us. It was an absolute delight and privilege.


Scott 1:01:06

Yeah, thank you, Chef Brandon. Thank you, Trichome Institute, we really look forward to checking out the rest of the coursework that we haven't experienced ourselves yet.


Miranda 1:01:20

And continuing the education or the education and conversation.


Scott 1:01:23

Absolutely. We're looking forward to talking to Max in the future potentially, about his psychedelic knowledge and research.


Miranda 1:01:32

Yeah.


Scott 1:01:33

And yeah, more more chats with Chef Brandon and more conversations with you all about, you know, the types of people that you want to hear us talk to, the types of issues that you want to hear us talk about. As always, we greatly appreciate the feedback, you can shoot us email, through theheadyconversations.com, theheadyconversations@gmail.com is the email address. You can obviously always reach me through Your Cannabis Coach.


Miranda 1:02:03

And Our Lady of Maryjane on Instagram as it stands at the moment.


Scott 1:02:07

Yeah, right. You know, who knows when we will? You know, I don't think we're important enough for Instagram to censor yet, but that seems to be what does it which, you know, begs the question, as we had the conversation with Chef Brandon, as we mentioned in the episode, when we talked about this censorship originally, is there a, you know, weaponized effort by other cannabis companies to report successful cannabis business? In the space and and get them taken away? You know.


Miranda 1:02:41

And you know, what, guys, that's just not cool.


Scott 1:02:42

It's just not even a conversation we should have to have, it shouldn't be possible for people to report, you know, totally legal cannabis content. You know, I mean, look, we all go to efforts to post our warnings and to do our best to age restrict things. And you know, none of us are selling things or, you know, promoting necessarily even people that are selling things. It's just, it's just absolutely absurd how we're censored from speaking about medicine.


Miranda 1:03:18

They're weaponizing our community against us.


Scott 1:03:20

It's, and it's, as we spoke before, in another episode, it skews the playing field to the big businesses that have the money, because it surely seems like the people that pay for the sponsored content, don't have their accounts taken away. It's the people that do it organically. As Chef Brandon said, you know, they've never even really done the whole influencer thing. They they've, you know, given away some scholarships here or there, like they've talked about doing with us or like they've done with us personally. But as far as like paying for sponsored ads, or things like that ever done, not something that they really do. And it seems to me that yeah, the companies that don't get censored are the ones that I see those sponsored ads from. Yeah, and they can get away with posting content and volumes of content and types of content that other you know, organic, more cottage industries, or more kind of, you know, outsider players in the industry, small business don't seem to get away with. So yeah, it's more important than ever, folks, for you to interact with the content that you support. And let these companies know, let the politicians know that we need to end the stigma and we need to end the criminalization of this plant. And that the conversations around it and the knowledge around it and absolutely, and the access to the industry that's making billions of dollars


Miranda 1:04:53

And build that community that we have not had that is completely skewed because of big business.


Scott 1:05:00

Yeah. So thank you for being a part of our community. Next week we will be talking to you on our review episode about some fun flower from out in the mountains of Western Maryland.


Miranda 1:05:16

Yeah a little Grow West action for ya. A little untrimmed Grow West action for ya.


Scott 1:05:21

That's right. Yeah some some bargain cannabis for you bargain hunters out there or for you folks that you know aren't looking for the 30% THC is because both of these that we reviewed this month, were a little bit lower in the the THC spectrum. So check it out if you liked the review episodes. If not, you can catch us in two weeks, I guess. q&a send those questions in. We'll talk to you soon folks be well to yourselves and each other.


Miranda 1:05:52

Go get something good to eat.


[MUSIC: "Gimme Three Steps" by Lynyrd Skynyrd]


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